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A Failed Attempt to Overturn the Election

Hosted by Michael Barbaro; produced by Jessica Cheung, Michael Simon Johnson, Robert Jimison and Neena Pathak; and edited by M.J. Davis Lin.

The Trump administration has authorized formal preparations for the transfer of power. Here is a look at the campaign of lawsuits, lies and pressure that sought to prevent that from happening.

[music]

michael barbaro

From The New York Times, I’m Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily.

Today, after weeks of delay, the Trump administration has authorized a formal transfer of power to President-elect Joe Biden. My colleague, Jim Rutenberg, on the unprecedented campaign of lawsuits, lies, and pressure from the president to try to prevent that from ever happening. It’s Tuesday, November 24.

Jim, the last time you and I talked was the morning, the Saturday morning that The New York Times called the presidential election several weeks ago. Do you remember?

jim rutenberg

Are you sure we spoke? Because I have no recollection of that day. [LAUGHTER]

michael barbaro

We absolutely spoke. And it feels like four years ago. But at that moment, and actually in that conversation, our collective sense was that in the face of defeat President Trump would be making the case that he, in fact, hadn’t lost. That he would not concede anytime soon. That he would file a few lawsuits, but that it really wasn’t going to amount to all that much, and that it would probably feel like a nuisance campaign. And in fact, it’s kind of become a pretty big deal.

jim rutenberg

Yeah. I’ve spent most of this year preparing to cover some semblance of something like this if he lost. But I was not prepared. Nothing indicated to me it was going to look like this.

archived recording

President Trump remaining defiant and not conceding this race. By all indications today, the president wants to keep fighting. We’re going to win Pennsylvania. But they’re trying to cheat us out of it because they know it’s their only path to victory. The president’s biggest battlegrounds, the courtrooms in the states that will decide the presidential race. Trump has not lost. Do not concede, Mr. President. Fight hard.

jim rutenberg

And that’s this incredibly intense effort that starts with some court cases.

archived recording

In Michigan, Republicans claim they had evidence the count should be stopped.

jim rutenberg

And then more court cases.

archived recording

In Nevada, Republican lawyers claim their observers weren’t close enough. In Pennsylvania, Trump’s lawyers claimed their observers were being blocked.

jim rutenberg

Then you have this pressure campaign on not just politicians, but election officials at the lowest levels of state government.

archived recording

This wheelbarrow, filled with more than 1,000 handwritten letters from Trump supporters, was delivered to state legislators today in hopes of stopping the next stage in the election process.

jim rutenberg

As they worked to do this very basic thing, which is to count the votes and declare the winner. It will not work. But it is so relentless and tenacious, that it’s causing a lot of trouble. And it’s really pointing up some weaknesses in the system.

michael barbaro

OK. So let’s walk through this evolving strategy from the president and how it has evolved and how it’s actually playing out in some key states. And it feels like the most interesting developments so far have occurred really in three states, Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Michigan. And I wonder if I could start in Pennsylvania.

jim rutenberg

Pennsylvania, sure, good state, my home state, I will have you know. So Pennsylvania has been where President Trump has followed a strategy of litigation, just filing lawsuit after lawsuit, state court, county court, city court. At every level, just lawsuit, lawsuit. And the lawsuits are all of it kind of the same basic idea, that President Trump’s observers weren’t able to see what was going on when they were sort of monitoring the vote counting. This is, by the way, not true. And then the arguments are about mail ballots, basically, that these have been flawed and open to fraud sort of system of voting that should be just cast aside. And our cruise director for this fantastical voyage is none other than the former New York City mayor, now the president’s personal lawyer, Rudolph Giuliani.

archived recording (rudolph giuliani)

Wow. What a beautiful day. Thank you. Thank you for coming.

jim rutenberg

Listeners will remember that he starts this right the weekend after Election Day. He debuts— his big premiere is at a joint called Four Seasons Total Landscaping, Incorporated, on the outskirts of Philadelphia, across from a porn shop and, you know, some tchotchke places. [STREET NOISE]

archived recording (rudolph giuliani)

So I’m here on behalf of the Trump campaign to describe to you the first part of a situation that is extremely troubling.

jim rutenberg

And at this press conference—

archived recording (rudolph giuliani)

As you know, from the very beginning, the mail in ballots were innately prone to fraud.

jim rutenberg

Mayor Giuliani basically impugns the entire Philadelphia election system and the Democrats who control the city.

archived recording (rudolph giuliani)

In Philadelphia, they keep the votes of dead people secret. I’m not attacking the people of Philadelphia. I’m attacking a decrepit Democratic machine which has a lot of other reasons to be attacked. You are poorly served, ladies and gentlemen of Philadelphia.

jim rutenberg

And then—

archived recording

The matter before the court this afternoon is that of Donald J. Trump for president. He kind of continues on. He takes an increasing leadership role in these lawsuits.

archived recording (rudolph giuliani)

Rudolph W. Giuliani. I represent the plaintiff in this case.

archived recording

You’re a member of the bar of New York?

archived recording (rudolph giuliani)

I am. Yes, sir.

archived recording

And at least one federal court?

archived recording (rudolph giuliani)

Yes, sir.

archived recording

You’re good to go.

jim rutenberg

For the first time in decades, Giuliani, who’d started his career as a very famous prosecutor in New York, reenters a federal courtroom. He’s, like, coming back to swing the old bat.

archived recording (rudolph giuliani)

The best description of this situation is that it’s a widespread, nationwide voter fraud.

jim rutenberg

He starts making kind of a similar argument that he made at good old Four Seasons Total Landscaping, Inc., with these kind of wholesale allegations of fraud.

archived recording (rudolph giuliani)

But the principal ones are in Philadelphia and in Allegheny. Both of them Democrat machines, controlled by Democrats. In the case of Philadelphia, well-known for voter fraud.

jim rutenberg

But the lawsuit is, in fact, narrower. It’s not a big fraud suit. It’s basically about alleged improprieties and irregularities with mail in ballots, for which there’s not much evidence. And the judge presses Giuliani.

archived recording

Does the amended complaint plead fraud with particularity?

jim rutenberg

Is this a fraud case? Because I was not aware of that.

archived recording (rudolph giuliani)

No, your honor. And it doesn’t plead fraud.

jim rutenberg

And Giuliani has to admit, no, your honor. This is not a fraud case.

archived recording

All right. Thank you, counsel, very much.

archived recording (rudolph giuliani)

Thank you, Judge.

archived recording

The court is adjourned. Good night.

[music]

jim rutenberg

So the judge, pretty mild-mannered in the courtroom, renders an absolutely stinging rebuke this past Saturday in his decision. And that decision reads, “Plaintiffs—” and that would be the president through Mr. Giuliani— “asked this court to disenfranchise almost 7 million voters.” He goes on. “This court has been unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the contest of an election in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated. One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption. Instead, this court has been presented with strange legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations unsupported by evidence.

Our people, laws, and institutions demand more.”

michael barbaro

Right. He’s basically saying get out of my courtroom. You have asked me to do something extraordinary. And you have provided no evidence that I should do it. So at this point, their case is completely falling apart.

jim rutenberg

They just don’t have it. And with that stinging ruling, it’s basically, definitely in Pennsylvania, this legal strategy is kind of hitting the end of its road.

michael barbaro

Mhm. OK. So let’s move on to Georgia, where it feels like we start to see the strategy evolving from just a legal effort to refute the outcome.

jim rutenberg

Yes. Georgia’s where we see President Trump’s kind of number one asset come into play. And that’s his influence in the party, which is his power in the party and his power not only to persuade, but to pressure.

archived recording

Georgia’s Secretary of State says fellow Republicans are pushing him to exclude legally cast votes. And that he and his wife are getting death threats over it. And he brings this pressure to bear upon poor Secretary of State of Georgia, a Republican, Brad Raffensperger.

archived recording (brad raffensperger)

I understand everything that we do will be put under a microscope.

jim rutenberg

And what’s going on here is Georgia’s been very close, much closer than Pennsylvania, a few thousand votes. And this pressure is coming from President Trump, his supporters in the state, very powerful Republican Party there, that he needs to audit before there’s any certification and that it should be a hand recount. And what that’s going to do, if the president is to get his way here is, slow this process down. Because that’s the goal. Stave off the inevitable certification of Joe Biden’s win. And lo and behold, the Secretary of State caves on this.

archived recording (brad raffensperger)

With the margin being so close, it will require a full, by hand recount in each county. This will help build confidence. It will be a heavy lift.

jim rutenberg

And agrees to a hand recount. The Trump campaign is celebrating. The Democrats have their heads in their hands. But lo and behold, this recount takes place pretty quickly. They do find, in fact, a couple major counties have thousands of lost votes. But when those votes are counted by hand again, Trump gains between one and 2000 extra votes, not enough to overcome the result. So it only solidifies the fact that Joe Biden won the state of Georgia. So the president and his allies in the state to just beating the heck out of the poor Secretary of State.

archived recording

And this afternoon, Senators Perdue and Loeffler, both of them Republicans, issued a joint statement calling for the resignation of Georgia’s Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger. Raffensperger—

jim rutenberg

And it’s not just President Trump. He gets buy in from some powerful figures in his party, notably Senator Lindsey Graham, who’s not even of Georgia.

archived recording (brad raffensperger)

Well, when Senator Graham called, I just assumed that he was calling about the two runoffs for the senators. So I called him back.

jim rutenberg

—who Raffensperger comes out and says, publicly, that Lindsey Graham called him and pressured him to throw out legally cast votes. I felt that he implied that for us to audit the envelopes and throw out ballots of counties with the highest frequency error of signatures. And I said, you know, mentioned that that’s not something we can do.

archived recording

The fact that they called you and asked you this, Brad, did you feel it was inappropriate?

archived recording (brad raffensperger)

Yes. I did. And that’s why I didn’t call back.

jim rutenberg

The results have held up. The little discrepancies are nowhere near changing the result. And so Trump is bringing incredible pressure to bear on this lowly public official who, despite being a fellow Republican, stands up for the results. And Joe Biden is declared the winner of Georgia. [MUSIC]

michael barbaro

So in Georgia what we’re seeing is this much more hard-edged, and I guess creative form of interference by the president, to threaten a public official who holds responsibility for vote counting and certification and basically, have them start to fear for their future and therefore, do the president’s bidding, which in this case might just be throwing out votes.

jim rutenberg

Yes. It’s an open bid for wholesale disenfranchisement. And in fact, it’s failed. Because Georgia certified its vote last week. And Raffensperger kind of delivered a sort of ringing endorsement of democracy in his state. And he said in a statement, the truth is that the people of Georgia, and across the country, should not have any remaining doubts about who won the presidential election earlier this month. That was as definitive as you could get. This is it.

michael barbaro

He’s telling them it’s over in Georgia.

jim rutenberg

Yes. It’s going in the mail, right to the electoral college.

michael barbaro

We’ll be right back.

OK. So Jim, finally, we have Michigan. Now in Pennsylvania, an elaborate legal strategy is tried and failed. In Georgia, a pretty elaborate pressure campaign is tried. That failed. So what happens in Michigan?

jim rutenberg

Michigan is like a Trumpian wrench into the gears of democracy, where he delves into the machinery of certifying a presidential vote from a state. And he starts clunking it up.

michael barbaro

What does that look like, clunking it up?

jim rutenberg

So what it looks like is, first of all, you get to see these gears that, as a voter, you never see. And suddenly, we start hearing last week that pressure is mounting on something that I’d never heard of in 20 years of covering politics. There’s a canvassing board in Wayne County. Every county has a canvassing board that runs through this process. And this Wayne County canvassing board, it’s a four member board, two Republicans, two Democrats, very low level party members. It’s coming under immense pressure from the Trump world to refuse to certify the vote.

michael barbaro

Hm.

jim rutenberg

These two board members who are Republicans are being told you must, because of these tiny discrepancies, not certify this vote. And if they don’t, this will be a big problem.

michael barbaro

Yeah. Why? Why would that matter so much?

jim rutenberg

Because then Michigan’s ability to certify its vote and send its delegates to the electoral college is hindered. This is a major county, but even any county would cause this problem. And we learned a thing about these two Republicans on the Wayne County canvassing board. In fact, they are ardent Trump supporters. And they are fully buying into this idea that fraud is rampant. And in fact, one of these two, William Hartmann, his Facebook page was filled with conspiracies about fraud in this election, things that are just abjectly false. It’s in their hands, the future of democracy in Michigan.

And sure enough, when it comes time to certify—

archived recording

Well, Craig, it was a dramatic night in Michigan. Here’s what happened.

jim rutenberg

Citing these tiny little discrepancies in a few precincts in Wayne County and in Detroit—

archived recording

Two Republican county officials in Michigan’s largest county, which includes Detroit, refused to certify the election results in that county.

jim rutenberg

—they say we can’t certify, these two Republicans. So now that board is going to be deadlocked. Well—

archived recording

That move outraged the Democrats on the Board and speaker after speaker on the Board’s public Zoom meeting.

jim rutenberg

The short of it is, there’s a great outcry.

archived recording

You have extracted a Black city out of the county, and said the only ones that are at fault and at issue is the city of Detroit, where 80% of the people who reside here are African-American.

jim rutenberg

Detroit voters are not going to go along with this. There are hundreds of people in this meeting. And these two Republicans reverse course. And they vote to certify. And that would be that. Lo and behold, who calls them but the President of the United States.

[music]

michael barbaro

Calls the two members of the Wayne County canvassing board?

jim rutenberg

Yes. And 24 hours later, they released a statement that they are trying to take back their vote. We don’t want to certify. We’re taking it back, after they’ve spoken to the president. Now it turns out, legally, they can’t do that. So that’s over. So now, next step in the process, the president turns his attention to the state canvassing board. And suddenly, that four member body that, again, I’ve never heard of—

michael barbaro

Right.

jim rutenberg

—in the last 20 years, they are under immense pressure, immense pressure. And we start seeing some interesting things about those two Republican members. And that is that one of them, Norm Shinkle, he is such an ardent Trump supporter that last month, he sang the national anthem at a Trump rally in Lansing.

michael barbaro

Wow.

jim rutenberg

So now, it’s all about this state canvassing board. And Norm Shinkle tells us over the weekend— this is happening kind of late in the week into the weekend— that he is under such pressure. His phone is ringing off the hook in ways it has never rang off the hook. And he says, now, wait a minute. I don’t know what I’m going to do here. Now this is an interesting quandary. Because these boards do not, as a matter of course, weigh whether or not to certify votes.

michael barbaro

Right. Their job is to be a rubber stamp.

jim rutenberg

They’re a rubber stamp. Literally, they used rubber stamps in Wayne County. [LAUGHTER] This is a formality. And suddenly, Norm Shinkle’s saying, well, we might have to do an investigation or an audit here.

archived recording (norm shinkle)

Today I’m faced with an important decision, whether or not to certify the results of the November 3 general election.

jim rutenberg

So then we come into Monday. And there’s great anticipation about this vote. This is kind of this incredible moment where the state of Michigan may not be able to certify its election result. An election result, by the way, mind you, that is some 150,000 votes in Joe Biden’s favor. So this is extraordinary. Norm Shinkle shows up and raises his concerns. He doesn’t feel confident about this. He doesn’t know.

archived recording (norm shinkle)

Well, it’s become too clear to us that many in Michigan and across the country, that Michigan has a problem conducting elections.

jim rutenberg

And he’s told.

archived recording

You’re not a body to investigate fraud.

jim rutenberg

That you do not have a choice. This is a rubber stamp body. Your job is to certify.

archived recording

The statute doesn’t give you the authority to mandate documents or compel testimony.

jim rutenberg

And then there’s this kind of surprising moment where the other Republican on the Board, his name’s Aaron Van Langevelde—

archived recording (aaron van langevelde)

We have a clear legal duty to certify the results of the election as shown by the returns that were given to us.

jim rutenberg

He raises his hand to say, you know, that is our job.

archived recording (aaron van langevelde)

We cannot and should not go beyond that.

jim rutenberg

Our job is to simply certify.

michael barbaro

Huh.

jim rutenberg

And ultimately, he sides with the two Democrats to vote for certification.

archived recording

Will you please take a roll call vote? Chair Bradshaw? Yes. Vice Chair Van Langevelde?

archived recording (aaron van langevelde)

Yes.

jim rutenberg

And Norm Shinkle—

archived recording

Mr. Shinkle?

archived recording (norm shinkle)

Abstains.

jim rutenberg

—gets to keep his good standing in Trump world intact by abstaining.

archived recording

This motion does move.

michael barbaro

And ultimately, this canvassing board votes to certify the result, therefore declare Biden’s victory, and hand him all of Michigan’s, I believe, 16 electors from the electoral college.

jim rutenberg

That is exactly the case.

michael barbaro

Jim, I just want to pause and marvel, if that’s the right word, at what you have just described. Because the lawsuits, what we saw in Pennsylvania, that was one thing. Right? Every candidate for every office is entitled to use the legal avenues available to them to challenge the results of an election. But the bullying of officials, like the Secretary of State in Georgia feels very different. It feels deeply unethical. And asking officials in Michigan to basically void the results of a free and fair election, to take actions that could lead to the overturning of the will of tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of voters? That just feels not merely shocking, right, but undemocratic. And for many people, deeply immoral.

jim rutenberg

Yeah, Michael, we’ve never seen anything like this. And there’s an extra frankly disturbing twist to this. And that is that the communities he’s targeting are cities with large Black populations, in Detroit’s case, majority Black population, in a country whose great shame has been the disenfranchisement of Black voters. And Trump went to a place we’d still never seen as a country, which is throw out the entire city’s votes.

michael barbaro

Right. And not just Detroit, but also, as you said before when it came to Rudy Giuliani, Philadelphia.

jim rutenberg

You know, we’re not even talking about Atlanta or Milwaukee. And so much of this effort, this campaign, whatever you want to call it, is to malign Black majority cities, Black voters with this ridiculous, unsubstantiated accusation that somehow these cities are too corrupt for their votes to count.

michael barbaro

Right. And yet, in all of the attempts that you have just described, none of them have worked. Which I guess shows that the system does contain a fair number of checks and balances. Because as you said, this is, without question, an unprecedented assault on the system. But the system, in the three cases that we just went through, did not succumb.

jim rutenberg

I guess I’ll do a glass half full answer on that is, yes, the checks and balances worked. But they only worked because people like the Secretary of State of Georgia, people like the lone Republican who is willing to vote for certification in Michigan, believed in that system enough that they followed the law and didn’t go along with President Trump on this. But it took those people standing up. That’s been the lesson here, is the system is run by human beings with their own partisan passions.

[music]

michael barbaro

Jim, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

jim rutenberg

Thanks for having me.

michael barbaro

Shortly after we spoke with Jim, the head of the General Services Administration, Emily Murphy, issued a statement formally designating Joe Biden as President-elect and providing the funds and resources necessary to begin the transition process. In a letter to Biden, Murphy said she had made the decision on Monday afternoon, following the string of legal defeats for Trump and the certification of Biden’s victory in states like Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Michigan. In a tweet, Trump said that he accepted Murphy’s decision, but did not concede and promised to continue his fight.

We’ll be right back.

Here’s what else you need to know today.

The Times reports that President-elect Biden is close to naming several key figures to his cabinet, including Janet Yellen, the former head of the Federal Reserve Bank, as Treasury Secretary. Yellen would be the first woman to ever run the department. Biden is also expected to name Alejandro Mayorkas, a former Obama administration official, to lead the Department of Homeland Security, the first Latino to hold that post. And Avril Haines, another Obama official, as the Director of National Intelligence, making her the first woman in that role.

Finally, the President-elect will create a new post, International Climate Envoy, to be filled by John Kerry, the former Secretary of State.

That’s it for The Daily. I’m Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.


Pressure and litigation appear to have been the pillars of President Trump’s response to his general election loss.

His team filed a litany of court cases in battleground states. In some, such as Georgia and Michigan, the president and his allies took an even more bullish approach, attempting to use their influence to bear down on election officials, even at the lowest levels of state government.

They have been relentless and tenacious in the efforts to transform the president’s fortunes. But the results have been immovable: Joe Biden is the president-elect.

As the formal transition process finally gets underway, we take a look at how the Trump campaign’s attempts to overturn the election played out, and what they might mean for democratic norms in future.



Jim Rutenberg, a writer-at-large for The New York Times and The Times Magazine, walks us through the Trump campaign’s strategy in key states.

Image
A protester outside the Michigan State Capitol in Lansing. A state board certified Joe Biden’s victory there on Monday, despite intense pressure from President Trump.Credit...Emily Elconin for The New York Times

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Jim Rutenberg contributed reporting.

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