Who was the first Anti-Hero character?

When looking at Anti-Hero today, I saw that Kaoru Genji and Odysseus are both "considered" as "the first"/"the Trope Maker" for this trope by literary analysists. I admit I'm a bit surprised to see such old examples on what I thought was a fairly modern trope, and I note that the trope itself says:

Older Than Steam instead lists Theatre/Doctor Faustus as the first Anti-Hero, who is much closer to modern times. Apparently there's even a Classical Anti-Hero trope for the above description. Should Odysseus and Genji perhaps go there instead? Odysseus fits the amoral part (or just Values Dissonance), but not the paragraph which I shall sum up as "angst." Genji I don't know at all.

I'm also perplexed because I am cleaning up all the wicks for all The Oldest Ones in the Book indexes, and so I need to know which index this trope belongs on.

edited 18th Mar '12 8:32:40 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Quite possibly, Cain. To the point that a character named Cain, Kain, or Kane is almost guaranteed to be an Anti-Hero.

edited 18th Mar '12 8:38:31 PM by KingZeal

Hm, I'd think Cain is played more like a strait-up villain.

He's actually the first Face–Heel Turn, I think. Cains are less antiheroes than they are betrayers.

The Cartoon History Of The Universe describes Genji as the first antihero. I think Odysseus predated both antiheroes and the current understanding of heroes—he was simply someone who was strong enough and clever enough to defeat his foes.

What sort of anti-hero is Genji? Is he the classic type of anti-hero in literary criticism, or is he what T Vtropes calls an anti-hero? Or some other definition?

Or better, what qualities make him anti-heroic?

I agree with Feo. From the ancient Greek understanding of the word, Odysseus is a straight-up hero. Heroes weren't required to be sympathetic.

edited 20th Mar '12 2:23:12 AM by DoktorvonEurotrash

Hm, I did see Jason (of the Argonaut story) on the Classical Anti-Hero page. The guy was apparently not up to ancient Greek moral standards. But he wasn't weak or self-doubting or crappy in combat or depressed.

Wasn't the original Gilgamesh one? Even contemporarily to the epic's publishing?

I think there are several legit contenders for "first" anti-hero, considering how few cultures could cross-pollinate until the last couple hundred years. I think it's best, for tropes Older Than Dirt, to just use "one of the earliest," to dodge having to play amateur historian.

Gilgamesh was certainly a jerkface and a womanizer, and his own subjects apparently didn't like him. Sadly I haven't read the Epic of Gilgamesh, so I can't say whether he qualifies as an anti-hero.

As for playing amateur historian... sorting out which Oldest Ones in the Book index something belongs on often requires that, or just delete it from all the indexes. (Removing all YMMV tropes from those would make me happy, but that's off-topic.)

@Genji's qualities: I haven't read the book, but TCHotU describes him as a "sullen, brooding youth," which sounds like the antihero as loser.

I think The Other Wiki is quite right when it says:

I think the trope Anti-Hero only really came into being after the Ideal Hero was invented. It doesn't really apply to heroes like Odysseus, Achilles or Gilgamesh IMO, because our impression that these characters behave like jerkasses more often than not is mainly due to Values Dissonance. People of antiquity didn't quite feel the same way. Hardly a single one of the "heroes" of ancient epics is faultless, but they also weren't expected to be (not even the Gods were morally faultless). Heracles, for example, slaughtered his wife and children in a fit of insanity.(linguistic digression)

Wikipedia suggests Faust, Falstaff and Don Quijote as early antiheroes. I think it makes sense to seek the roots of the Anti-Hero trope in the Renaissance, because these types of heroes are consciously designed to conflict with established concepts of the Ideal Hero — Falstaff and Don Quijote are parodies/deconstructions/subversions/whatever of the Knight in Shining Armor codified by Chivalric Romance, and Faust consciously commits the (within Christian thinking) ultimate sin by making a Deal with the Devil. (Although I assume that Faust was originally a plain villain, and only gradually re-interpreted into an antihero later.)

Of course, Prince Genji would be much older than either of these examples. I can't really help with that question. I think the answer to the question rests on whether Genji's actions and character contradict what Japanese audiences of the era would have expected from a "hero".

edited 22nd Mar '12 12:58:31 PM by LordGro

I think the modern/TV Tropes concept of anti-hero (someone who violates conventional definitions of good while remaining admirable in other ways) doesn't make any sense until the rise of individualism as a coherent set of values. Previous to that, a hero was someone who upheld the social order. The idea that someone might be admirable on their own merits, apart from social convention, wouldn't have made any sense. The transition was a gradual one, as Lord Gro mentioned.

On the other hand, one can ask which literary figure was the first deliberate anti-hero, i.e written by their author with such a concept in mind. Falstaf and/or Don Quiote are good contenders. I think the first characters that fit the trope as I understand it was the Byronic Hero which I suppose was Childe Harold.

It wouldn't work to uphold some social customs and violate or question others?

Not in the old days. Your own survival and the survival of your family depended on the solidarity of the community. "Lone-Wolves" or people who decided they could cherry pick what rules to follow got themselves and others dead. The only exception were highly civilized eras like the Roman Empire, and then only for the comfortable elites.

And civilizations impose their own ritualizations of behavior to contain violence.

edited 24th Mar '12 8:19:07 AM by ArcadesSabboth

I think Odysseus has a fairly good claim. While Greek heroes in general weren't really heroic by modern standards, Odysseus is kind of unique in relying on dirty tricks and not always being eager to fight. Notably, the Romans, because of their Proud Warrior Race Guy ethos thought Odysseus was a bad guy in a way that the other "heroes" were not.

We really should judge by the standards of Homers time and place, though, shouldnt we? What traits does Odysseus display that would have made him an anti-hero to the Ancient Greeks?

Odysseus? He had plenty of hubris - a definite no-no of the day. Ironically, that trait would probably have him trend more towards a traditional hero these days (saying "screw you" to Jerkass Gods? I can think of worse traits in my hero).

He has a mild case of hubris, for which he paid his dues before being rehabilitated as a hero. Odysseus is not in any sense an anti-hero. Probably his greatest moment of weakness is when he is confronted with the ghosts of the heroic dead and learns that in death, their glories are small comfort. In general, Odysseus exhibits what would have been considered an appropriate level of haughtiness. His interactions with Circe pushed the line, but Circe, many of the ocean nymphs, and Poseidon and his many children often seemed to be on the losing side of arguments when it came to Zeus and Hera's favorites.

If he was really significantly hubristic, wouldn't he be hated by all the gods, including Athene?

Odysseus had more than a little hubris. Though he did keep it under control around Athena, which is why he could get her favor. That said, Poseidon did decide to jerk him around in no small part because Odysseus wasn't shy about showing it towards him (though attacking and blinding his son also factored in). He may not be as blatant as some other examples, but Odysseus did count even in his day.

I'd say Polyphemos was guilty of more hubris, blatantly violating xenia and badmouthing Zeus. And did Odysseus even know he was the son of Poseidon when he blinded him? Anyway, being the son of a god doesn't get you out of hot water for behaving that way: Theseus is held up as a hero and he served several demigods bandits their own on his way from Troizen to Athens.

Then both are examples - just because one person took it further than the other doesn't mean only one person is an example.

But your example of his hubris was blinding the Cyclops. How would it be hubris to blind the hubristic guy who ate his guests, openly despised the gods, and was going to eat you?

Poseidon didn't punish him for hubris. He punished him for blinding his son. Hubris isn't the only thing that bugs the gods.

edited 28th Mar '12 4:25:50 PM by ArcadesSabboth